Science3.net's Forums

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:40 pm

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When you make a statement, pls give example to convince others.

How about abuse of ISA and the legal system?

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Because we are not bumiputras.

So? What difference does that make? We are still Malaysian't after all...

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A bit illogical. So US never had great leaders? A great man is not a superman. There are always some problems which a great man can't solve(maybe not even superman can solve all problems). I am not saying that Dr M is great, just to show that your analogy is wrong.

Well, me thinks the system here is worse. In Singapore, you can hardly find corruption, here, everyone knows that it doesn't matter if you are caught with some minor offence. Some kopi-money will settle that easily.

Besides, have you ever heard of the world FIRST paperless hospital? Yep, it is in Malaysia. It costs billions to built and develop. But now, it is so disgraceful Malaysia don't even dare breathe a word of it to other people.

Everything is supposed to be computerised, but due to lousy software and hardware management, hospital staff do BOTH paper and computer work at the same time. Meaning, when they take a patients' name, they type it into the computer and write it down on paper at the same time. Double the work, double the inefficiency. And who pays for this fallacy? The rakyat. Not to mention those contractors will 99.99% inflate the price of labour, materials, making BIG money out of it.

Then do you remeber when MAS lost a great deal of money and the government spent nearly 8.00 per share (market rate, 3.00++ only) buying the shares off Tajudin? Tajudin failed in business, but he is relaxing at home, and still have a steady income.

Ouote from the net:

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The Finance Ministry's bailout of Tajudin Ramli's Naluri Bhd appears to be another case of "privatising the profits and socialising the losses."

The deal will see the Ministry buying Naluri Bhd's 29.09 per cent stake in loss-making Malaysia Airlines System Bhd (MAS) at more than twice the market price. In effect, Naluri will receive a premium of 121 per cent or close to RM1 billion more than market value as the Finance Ministry (and, by extension, Malaysian taxpayers) will be paying RM8 ringgit per MAS share when the market price was only RM3.62 on 20 December.

The premium will relieve Naluri, saddled with RM888 million in bank borrowings, and Tajudin, reportedly burdened with huge personal debts, of much of their financial difficulties. Tajudin is chairman of both MAS and Naluri.

MAS has posted four straight years of losses and is saddled with over RM9 billion in debts. Its financial position today is much worse than it was when Naluri acquired the shares; so there is no justification for the Finance Ministry to pay any premium over market price.

Even if there was a premium to be paid - which considering MAS' financial woes sounds ridiculous - how can the Finance Ministry justify paying a 121 per cent premium? Was there an independent valuation carried out?

Recently Finance Minister Daim Zainuddin announced Khazanah's pending purchase of 20 per cent of TimeDotCom Bhd shares and added that the "price per unit share would be based on a professional evaluation by a consultant" - an independent one, we presume. The people have a right to know if a similar independent professional valuation was carried out to determine the MAS share value.

The news of the Naluri-MAS deal comes together with the revelation that Halim Saad is deferring payment on the exercise of his put option in the Renong-UEM deal. Halim announced that he would only be paying the RM3.2 billion for the 31 per cent stake in Renong Bhd he is buying from United Engineers (Malaysia) Bhd (UEM) in instalments. He is now expected to pay RM300 million in three equal tranches next year and the balance on 14 May 2002. Halim's deferred payment and the disposal of Renong assets to UEM for RM5.43 billion have triggered a selldown on Renong and in particular UEM shares.

Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has condemned foreign critics for suggesting that the lack of transparency and reforms in corporate governance was pulling down the Malaysian stockmarket. If the government would only care to listen, it is not just foreign analysts but also many concerned Malaysians who are critical of what are widely perceived as incestuous deals and wheeling-and-dealing, often at the expense of minority shareholders and other ordinary Malaysians.

As long as mismanagement goes unpunished and favoured but troubled tycoons are allowed easy escape routes, confidence in the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange and the economy in general will not improve.

Although the authorities have introduced some minor reforms in the capital markets, they seem to be missing the wood for the trees. Certainly, the introduction of measures such as T+3 will help to curb unscrupulous market players. But the government should take a closer look at why there has been much criticism and uneasiness over recent major deals.

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We do benefit. Think ...think...how do Twin Tower and KLIA contribute to our economic...think think...They really do...

I don't think they do. Maybe they do draw some tourist, but besides that, they don't really contribute anything. The US, UK, Germany, France etc. have economic, military, political powers that are many, many, many times greater than Malayisa. They can built the Twin Towers up, burn it down, then built one that is higher than it again, no porblem. But they don't, cause they don't see the point. If they can't benefit from a tall tower, why can we?

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We did well under him.

I am not disputing that, but I don't like the way people are idolizing him. He is just hiding his mistakes from the public.

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From a small country no1 knows,to a country the whole world know. We ought to credit him for that.

Yes, Malaysia has a penchant for large expensive projects. I don't many will be impressed by the world's tallest tower, biggest airport etc. The basics can't be ignored.

Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 12 Location: nekketsu!

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How about abuse of ISA and the legal system?

How did you know he abused it?

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Well, me thinks the system here is worse. In Singapore, you can hardly find corruption, here, everyone knows that it doesn't matter if you are caught with some minor offence. Some kopi-money will settle that easily.

We are not discussing about the system what. Of course I am aware that there's corruption in Malaysia. I was just proving your analogy is wrong.

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Everything is supposed to be computerised, but due to lousy software and hardware management, hospital staff do BOTH paper and computer work at the same time. Meaning, when they take a patients' name, they type it into the computer and write it down on paper at the same time. Double the work, double the inefficiency. And who pays for this fallacy? The rakyat. Not to mention those contractors will 99.99% inflate the price of labour, materials, making BIG money out of it.

That's Malaysia. Always trying to follow the high-techy flow while not everyone can ultilise it. This is the part I hate about it.

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I don't think they do. Maybe they do draw some tourist, but besides that, they don't really contribute anything. The US, UK, Germany, France etc. have economic, military, political powers that are many, many, many times greater than Malayisa. They can built the Twin Towers up, burn it down, then built one that is higher than it again, no porblem. But they don't, cause they don't see the point. If they can't benefit from a tall tower, why can we?

We do benefit. I will leave it to u to figure it out. What is the purpose of bulding twin tower? I admit that it's for showing off. What does showing off bring to us? US UK Germany don't need to play this kind of trick. By the way, they already have lots of high buildings.

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So? What difference does that make? We are still Malaysian't after all...

When you are the majority group in a country, and when you are in power...That's always this barrier there. You know what i mean.

Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 1929 Location: JB

a friend says American students doesn't have nice feelings for Malaysian students because of Dr. Mahathir.

and when you ever go to US to further studies, don't breathe a word of you being a Malaysian, you should rather say you're a Singaporean, and you'll get much respect

It is quite depressing, ain't it, huihoon?

Sue.

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:26 am

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How did you know he abused it?

No one should be jailed without legal counsel...
Besides, most of those jailed are from teh opposition.
And you really should read more about this stuff before arguing...

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We are not discussing about the system what. Of course I am aware that there's corruption in Malaysia. I was just proving your analogy is wrong.

So, I ok, to stop the argument, I admit that my anology is wrong. But still, his priority isn't really correct.

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That's Malaysia. Always trying to follow the high-techy flow while not everyone can ultilise it. This is the part I hate about it.

*Gives edwardo a pat on the shoulder*
Glad you agree Very Happy

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What does showing off bring to us?

Can't think of anything...

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When you are the majority group in a country, and when you are in power...That's always this barrier there. You know what i mean.

Well, it just isn't fair, and that is da truth...
Don't see why that man should get ALL credit.

Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 12 Location: nekketsu!

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No one should be jailed without legal counsel...
Besides, most of those jailed are from teh opposition.
And you really should read more about this stuff before arguing...

You should learn more about ISA before arguing

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Can't think of anything...

That's because you don't understand econs and politics.

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Don't see why that man should get ALL credit.

I never say he should. But you were flaming him as if he did nothing for Malaysia.

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:47 am

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You should learn more about ISA before arguing

It was created long time ago as a weapon against comunist.
But there are no more threats from comunist now.

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That's because you don't understand econs and politics.

That is only natural cause I am a science student...
Mind telling me?

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I never say he should. But you were flaming him as if he did nothing for Malaysia.

Was I?
Then sorry...
Correction here: He does do something good for malaysia but he should not be getting all the credit he got.

Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 12 Location: nekketsu!

i am also a science student.

Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 12 Location: nekketsu!

Come to think about it, what the point of building the world tallest building?

First is to increase the confidences of other countries toward malaysia. The effect is that we will get more MNC to invest in our country, we might be in a better position when negotiating trading terms with other countries. This will contribute to our econs growth.
Why don't US UK GER do this kind of things? We aren't in the same league. They are powerful and strong countries and don't need to do this kind of things.

There are still more reasons behind it.
Try to figure it out yourself. Think harder.

Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 12 Location: nekketsu!

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My Foot!
Mahathir hasn't really contributed to the country.

this is taken from your very first post

Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 1929 Location: JB

*peeks thread*
argh.. negative atmosphere...
*leaves thread*

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:10 am

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First is to increase the confidences of other countries toward malaysia. The effect is that we will get more MNC to invest in our country, we might be in a better position when negotiating trading terms with other countries. This will contribute to our econs growth.

I don't think that is what investors will look at.
They will prefer evidence. (it is an evidence based medicine world out there-- so sayeth my parents)
They will want statistical proof of it.
Building the world's tallest building from borrowed funds won't help...

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There are still more reasons behind it.
Try to figure it out yourself. Think harder.

Can't think any harder...
You try...

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this is taken from your very first post

Err..
Yeah...
Ok, he did contribute to the country but he has his demerits too...

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:12 am

Well .... suddenly think that I was correct to put this topic here at the very first place ... I knew if two persons having different opinion then the war would getting started ...

I just wondered ... will we get into any trouble talking all these here ? As you know Malaysia is not a country which the rakyat have the right to say simply anything ....

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:46 pm

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I just wondered ... will we get into any trouble talking all these here ? As you know Malaysia is not a country which the rakyat have the right to say simply anything ....

Yeah, and whose fault is that?
Who is the person who keeps appearing on the press insisting that Malaysia is a democratic country???

But I say, don't worry too much there are a few millions websites out there, they won't find this one Very Happy

Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 1929 Location: JB

LOL... ok, we're safe for now... LOL
but.. ya, how on earth do they check up who's breaking the law in the internet, we don't have CYBERLAW in malaysia.. Razz

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:06 am

Was just looking at some old posts when I saw this, just had to reply Wink

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ya, how on earth do they check up who's breaking the law in the internet, we don't have CYBERLAW in malaysia..

There is cyberlaw in Malaysia. Remember the bunch of people who were forwarding hoax emails and were detained under ISA? (Can't remember for what liao, either for SARS or Terrorism). Some news sites like Malaysiakini.com were also closed down.

They can check up who is using breaking the law on the internet by tracing your IP address, but not many will go to that much of a trouble. It is amazing how much info a site can get from you just by you getting on it...